The common cliché is you win some and you lose some.

The 2004 version of the Penn State men's gymnastics team does not expect to be so common.

The No. 5 Nittany Lions have lost some -- head coach Randy Jepson even believes, in terms of guys that contributed.

But, leave it to the eternal optimism of an athlete to believe that improvement is an inherent right of competition, work ethic and experience.

Case in point being the comments by three of the Lions very talented and much-depended-upon gymnasts -- Chad Buczek, Zack Roeder, and Kevin Tan. They believe that this year's team will reap more benefits than the 2003 squad. They were a group of men that captured the program's first-ever Big Ten Conference Championship, vaulted and flipped its way to a third-place finish at the NCAA championships.

"I think we're gonna do just as well as last year, if not better," Buczek said. "I know I've personally improved ten times."

And it's the kind of confidence that Buczek has that helps to develop one's ability to perform as an individual, which in turn ripens a team cohesiveness and belief that each gymnast will get the job done when called upon.

"I think we have the potential to compete with anyone," Roeder said backing up his teammate.

If the Lions gymnasts are questioning what it takes to be a national champion, they need to look no further than their teammate Tan. He is the defending national champion in the still rings event, and he may not just be considered a collegiate ring-master.

"I think he's the best in the nation including guys out of college," Roeder boasts of his senior teammate.

Tan can attribute that type of praise to his own self-confidence and the understanding that his physical capacity is greatly diminished without a mental edge.

"When you raise your hand you gotta be confident that you're gonna hit that routine," Tan said. "I expect to be a strong player on this team, to be someone that the team can count on."

Tan, the 2003 NCAA runner-up in the high bars, isn't the only player on this team that can be counted on.

Jepson anticipates strong seasons from Luis Vargas, Steve Tobin, Jerker Taudien, Buczek, Roeder, Ludwig Kern and Ed Seward.

All of who have been groomed during the previous seasons to assume this type of responsibility.

"What's exciting is that we've got some guys that aren't necessarily highly touted and weren't highly recruited, but they rise to the occasion," Jepson said. "