Black America has benefited from hard work, argued Elder, not from affirmative action.

"To suggest that but for affirmative action these people would not have succeeded is an insult," Elder said.

But Frankel argued affirmative action helps minorities and women by giving them greater opportunities and helps everyone else by promoting the diversity of ideas.

"It's about giving people opportunity, giving them hope, and giving us all greater prosperity," Frankel said.

The debate only occasionally grazed the specific topic of university admissions, and neither speaker mentioned Penn State.

The Penn State Young Americans for Freedom and the Penn State Chapter of the ACLU sponsored the speech, along with the College Libertarians and the Young America's Foundation.

About 300 people attended, but a sizable portion left before the concluding statements.

After the debate, the remaining audience members continued to fumble with the Larrys' last names, but left favoring the speaker who met their ideology.

"You could tell who was the better speaker," said Cesilia DeJesus (freshman-business psychology), who supported Frankel's affirmative action views but was disappointed with his debate performance.

Bryan McKinney (freshman-division of undergraduate studies) said he attended the debate because he is looking for a political movement with which to identify.

He said Elder's speaking skills probably won the ears of people looking for a cause, but said he personally sided with Frankel's view that affirmative action makes sense realistically.

"It's not about racists or bigots," McKinney said. "It's about real life."