Debate over different grading scales for undergraduate and graduate students in the same classes is causing concern following a Faculty Senate debate last week.

Graduate and undergraduate students sometimes compete directly for grades in 400-level classes. But graduates students are evaluated according to a straight letter system while undergraduates are subject to the plus/minus system.

Last week, several faculty senators said different grading systems for students doing the same work is unfair.

Graduate students have never been subjected to the plus/minus system, but a section of University's grading policy incorrectly stated they were subject to it, prompting the senator's comments. Last week, the senate reconfirmed that graduate students are not graded in the plus/minus system.

The grading system is not currently an issue in the graduate student community, said Ken Martin, Graduate Student Association president.

"I expect better answers from a graduate student. . . It wouldn't be fair to expect a senior to do as well as a graduate student," said John Malone, professor of agriculture.

Malone said he evaluates the relatively small number of graduate students in his 400-level classes more stringently than the undergraduate students.

The Faculty Senate approved the plus/minus undergraduate grading system in April 1985. The new system was instituted in fall 1987. In spring 1985, the graduate council, which parallels the faculty senate in proposing curriculum changes, rejected the plus/minus system.

The committee investigating the plus/minus system for the council received "very few positive responses" to a change, according to minutes of the 1985 graduate council meeting.

"The present grading system was satisfactory and they didn't see any compelling reason to change it," said Howard Palmer, chairman of the graduate council.

Lynn Carpenter, associate professor of electrical engineering, said he teaches a 400-level class with 10 percent graduate students and evaluates the students on the same criteria.

The course is graded on a curve and the majority of students receive grades without a plus or minus, Carpenter said. Relatively few grades fall in the borderline area so the difference in grading systems does not affect an undergraduate's ability to earn an "A," he said.

Individual attention is given to students whose grades rest on the borderlines and these students are the ones given a plus or a minus, he said.

An unfairness exists because graduate students have much wider experience and a lower class load than undergraduates, Carpenter said.

But, Ming Tien, associate professor of molecular and cell biology, said putting graduates and undergraduates in the same class does not adversely affect the undergraduates.

Graduate students taking a 400-level class have not had the material so they have no advantage in the class, Tien said.

"I don't really think graduate students have an intrinsic advantage over undergraduates intellectually or in experience. In my experience . . . on average the undergraduates do better than the graduates," Tien said.

Undergraduate and graduate students expressed views falling on both sides of the issue.

Molly Wierman (senior-marketing) said the difference in the grading system could "mess up the curve" for undergraduate students.

Tien said a statistical analysis would be needed to determine the amount of effect on the curve.

Carpenter said with graduate students making up only 10 percent of the class the effect on the curve would be minimal.

"(Graduate students) shouldn't be taking the same classes if they're not graded the same," Wierman said.

Garth Dahlen (graduate-chemistry) said the straight letter grading system should be used in all classes involving graduate and undergraduate students.

"It sounds a little absurd to have different systems going on in the same class," Dahlen said.

But Tom Hunter (graduate-mechanical engineering) and Frank Skraly (senior-chemical engineering) said since graduate and undergraduate students do not compete for jobs the different grading scales do not matter.

Martin said because the system involves both pluses and minuses there are advantages and disadvantages for students subject to the system.

But Robert Zielinski (junior-finance) said the plus/minus system hurts students grade point averages and its unfair for students in the same classes to be graded differently.